Elance vs. Rent-A-Coder

I've written about Rent-A-Coder before. I love this service. It's a handy way to get really smart people around the globe to code up some projects.

So in reading an ETech posting about Mark Flecher and Bloglines, I happen to catch a suggestion about using a company called Elance. Mark's remarks were centering around the keep your day job, go cheap, out source where you can speech that all smart company founders usually give. He mentioned Elance.com as his outsource org of choice.

Cool, let's have a look. Very interesting, looks good, lots of opportunities, plenty of options, etc, etc. Let's take a quick look at the about page, very nice, yadda yadda, investors, click, WHOA!!

70 Million American Smackers have gone into this company. Seventy Mil? Yowsa..

The big question: Is bragging you've collected (aka needed) $70 million a good thing? The IRR math says a serious chunk -o- change is needed in order to be doing high fives in the hallway.

Maybe that's why we call em tombstones. Just kidding, no flames.

March 19, 2005 | Permalink
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If you perfer rent a coder over elance more power to you. There is nothing wrong with others perfering elance. It is a good company that pays for itself in the end. It is a good for screening out those that are willing to work for dribble. I am personally happy that so many Americans prosper with it. The earned 70, million with their business. In reality this is a success for most people that want to have a successful business but I get you would not understand that.

Posted by: Anon | May 04, 2005 at 21:27

Elance pays itself in the end, not for itself.

Only 2 of the top 25 earners are strictly US-based. Most of the people making their money on elance are from outside the U.S. Egregious outsourcing vehicle, lowballing and trends that are not helpful to the marketplace for certain freelancers like designers and others. Over 700 of their Select program payers -- who at last check were paying $30 a month -- have ZERO earnings.

The program doesn't work unless you do high volume work for dirt wages from within Asia or Eastern Europe.

Posted by: Steve | March 03, 2006 at 11:50

RAC is a bad site. The majority of the coders are incompetent & unreliable. As long as you do not get into any ugly arbitration, you are fine. If you do get into an arbitration, guess what...you have to deal with a bunch of arbitrators who are equally incompetent & unreliable.

Birds of a feather flock together :-)

Lessons from an Elance Pro

I just completed a project on Elance, and I have to say that the results were excellent for the price. In fact, Elance has proven to be a surprisingly good source of talent, despite my having had to pay for a few duds here and there.

I got a fantastic product designer off Elance.

And now this Indian firm did a fantastic job on a site for probably 1/10 the cost of what a US developer would have charged.

But that’s not the point of this blog.

He did two things that EVERY web developer should do at the end of a project, whether on Elance or not:

1. He thanked me for my kind words, gave me the invoice, and asked if I wouldn’t mind paying right away.

2. He asked for me to provide a favorable testimonial to him, which I did.

He also did something else that I liked: As we reached the end of the project, his developers indicated that they were going to fix all remaining issues “right now.” And they worked with me for an hour via IM to fix those issues. So rather than going back and forth for days to wrap up the final details, they wrapped up right away.

That was refreshing, and the developer also noted that I could of course come back with issues in next 30 days if any came up.

Now he did do one thing that most of you will find annoying, and I did too: At the very end, when invoice was due, he asked me how much I wanted to pay (vs. referring to our original agreement). He suggested a bonus was in order. In some ways, I agree with him because he went above and beyond and provided tremendous value. But his real bonus will come from 3 additional projects I have for him. And asking for something outside the original agreement bugged me.

However, before dismissing this technique as obnoxious, please note that it can be a good technique to use at the beginning of a project (when it is more appropriate) when negotiating with a client, although it can’t be done on a bid site like elance. Negotiation studies have found that asking for a little bit more after almost finalizing an offer can work well. For instance, car dealers (not that any comparison is in order between developers and car dealers) will ask for $100 or $200 more after receiving an acceptable offer from a prospect. You can do the same.

I hope the above 2 paragraphs don’t take the point of this entry too far from the main points:

1. Present the invoice immediately and ask for prompt or immediate payment.

2. Ask for testimonials with every project.

3. Wrap up projects quickly. Don’t let them linger.

This entry was posted on Friday, December 9th, 2005 at 8:56 am, contains 457 words, and is filed under Selling Web Design Services. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed. The views and opinions in this blog post are those of its author.
This post has 19 responses so far beley Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 9:27 am
That’s good to hear… great advice and I’m glad you’ve had such good results from eLance. I’m thinking of getting bids for an upcoming project that would just be too expensive domestically. It’s nice to know people are getting good results from outsourcing.

And I totally agree with the 3 main points… excellent advice, as always!


jacarandabill Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 10:57 am
I am rentacoder coder. My experience comes from about 60 succesfull projects there and numerous other outside of rentacoder.

1. Present the invoice immediately and ask for prompt or immediate payment.

Yes but you always have to give the buyer some time to fully test the deliverable. In addition, you have to be very carefull how you will ask about the immediate payment. There is the “danger” to sound to eager to finish and move on without caring about any critical bugs or fixes.

2. Ask for testimonials with every project.

It isn’t necessary if the project finished succesfully.
I never asked for a good testimonial. The buyers always feel that they have to say a nice word.

3. Wrap up projects quickly. Don’t let them linger.

That is really important. I totally agree.


nemanja_nq Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 12:25 pm
I am thinking to join elance like provider. :) Nice article.


Someone who cares Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 12:35 pm
Are you proud of the fact you are sending your business outside the US? It sounds like it. That’s unfortunate.


Anonymously Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 12:50 pm
Are you proud of the fact you are sending your business outside the US? It sounds like it. That’s unfortunate.

You need to grow up… Globalization is good for the US, Andrew saved money and if you don’t like it too bad.


bobsorenson Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 2:40 pm
Globalization may be good for the US as a whole in the long-term. But then again if we as a Nation are not able to innovate and improve productivity here in the US at a fast enough pace, the standard of living of many people will fall significantly. If your standard of living is not falling it is easy to post anonymously a “grow up” comment.

Greed over compassion.


ptpnewmedia Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Capitalism and innovation rules! If you don’t like the game, don’t play. If your standard of living is affected, be creative and come up with a new way to better yourself instead of passing blame. That really just ticks me off!


whitestorm Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 2:51 pm
Andrew is a businessman and as such he has to think of the bottom line when he makes a business decision as to who he hires for a project. Why should he pay ten times the amount just to keep the money in the US if he can get the job done for 10% of that amount in a satisfactory way? If Westerners (and I obviously include my native UK in that) can’t compete on low cost, high quality software development these days then it’s time for innovation amongst our institutions of learning and commerce to help workers become more productive or efficient in other areas as happened when the Far East took away our traditional heavy industries and, especially in Northern Ireland, our staple shipbuilding and textile industries which we had been world leaders at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Continually paying over the odds for suppliers just to keep the money in the country of origin will ultimately lead to loss of productivity, efficiency and profitability all across that country. I have no problem then with using low cost suppliers to help make my products and services more profitable.


aneitlich Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 3:15 pm
This is a great discussion, so a new blog entry has been created just for it. See the next blog entry….

http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/12/09/business-ethics-and-morality/


webgirlNY Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
After viewing elance’s pricing, I don’t believe he got it at 1/10 of the cost. I think that’s an exaggeration. I’m sure there are some US firms who would quote 10x the cost, but I’m also sure that there are US firms whose quotes would be in line with elance. Maybe Andrew can show us the site and tell us what he paid?

elance’s pricing isn’t that far off of my pricing and I’m a designer and developer (asp/sql) with 7 years experience.

And while I find compelling arguments on both sides of the globalization debate, I’m not going to discuss that here. However, Andrew does seem to enjoy pointing out that he hires overseas designers. It would seem he’s already given up on US designers and maybe even looks down his nose at the lot of us. Which may be the best for his bottom line. Fine. But I for one am not going to follow all the links he posts to his (unimpressive) websites and buy products from him.


webgirlNY Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 3:25 pm
In other words, we’re good enough for him to sell to, we’re just not good enough for him to buy from.


GDA Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
Can we see that site?


EOBeav Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 8:58 pm
Andrew is an American, but didn’t SitePoint originally begin by an Australian designer? Many of the posts in the forums and in the blogs are from international sources, so it shouldn’t really offend anybody in here if a contributor is hiring some of his labor outside his native country.

I’m an American, and I can see the value of buying American first from my own ethnocentric perspective, but I just can’t see that happening on a site like SitePoint.


Brian Says:
December 9th, 2005 at 9:03 pm
lmao

I am curious…
What percentage of the the things you wear are made in the US? One percent? Two percent?
Your beef… Is it from the US or Argentina (where a huge amount of US consumed beef comes from)? How about your other food … Is it mostly from the US?
You automobile… Is it American made, by Americans for an American company, using American parts?
Your home entertainment items… Is any part of your home theater American made by an American company?

Take a look around Walmart, Ikea, Home Depot, Lowes Home Improvement, etc. These companies are rich off of imported products. Where do you shop? Exactly, what percentage of your income goes to buy products made in America, by an American owned company?

So, Andrew uses an overseas firm to build a great product for less than it would have cost to build the same product domestically. His company is stronger for the savings, and America is stronger when our companies are stronger.

Crying when a foreign company offers more value and better service for less money is a complete waste of time. In general, people will always buy what they believe is the deal for their money.

The issue is not what Andrew paid. The issue is why are you and I not on eLance, offering more value at a competitive price. So, quit bitching and learn to compete in the international IT market.

-Brian


Javier Cabrera Says:
December 10th, 2005 at 4:57 pm
Your beef… Is it from the US or Argentina (where a huge amount of US consumed beef comes from)?
Yeah! our beef are just the best in the world ;) but here they are expensive because it is best to sell outside. I’m complaining? well… no.

The world is changing fellows, this discussion is the living proof of it. You will always find people who is afraid of change; so… don’t take it personally. Just play the game; those people will end up playing too.

Cheers
Javier Cabrera


friendsterindia Says:
December 11th, 2005 at 3:14 am
US based software professionals can subcontract work to indian firms.They can handle the marketing part.Or they can come to india and start their developement centre here at low rates. Visiting india is not expensive.Try visiting bangalore,hyderabad,delhi, chennai, kolkata etc. Hire a consultant. You can easily get Office at technology park. Put a ad in naukri.com and you are ready to start operations in India.You can also contact me at techtiger@goowy.com . My friend’s firm is building largest tech park in Kolkata.You can get really great value from me related to property and hiring best talent.


aneitlich Says:
December 12th, 2005 at 2:14 pm
While the point of these blogs is not supposed to get personal about me and my buying habits (as the issues discussed are supposed to be bigger picture), this blog entry seems to have gotten personal in a non-factual way. I hate when that happens.

I checked my Quickbooks for this year about where I purchase services. 75% of the services I’ve purchased from designers and developers are from people who reside in the good ol’ USA. 25% are from overseas resources. So please stop assuming that I see it as a virtue to look overseas.

I look for best source in terms of quality and price. In this case, I was fortunate to find excellent quality and excellent pricing.

But do me a favor if you don’t mind…let’s focus on the big picture strategic issues. Don’t try to extrapolate or project who I am, what I am about or my philosophy. If you have a hunch about what I believe, email me privately and ask. If you have a “beef” about who I am and what I represent, email me privately and rant all you want.


Inversarium Says:
June 14th, 2006 at 8:09 am
@ Someone who Cares!?

What’s the big deal about outsourcing work?

The net’s a global village and it doesn’t matter who you get your work done from as long as it’s done good.

And personally, I think more on terms of being a citizen of the world than of ‘just’ my own country. I love my country and people just ‘as much’ as I much as I love ‘every’ other country and its people. So if I have to outsource work ever, I’d do it just as happily as I’d get it done here in India.

And btw, if I wasn’t a designer and needed design work done according to my frame of aesthetics, I’d definitely be getting it outsourced! I wouldn’t be thinking, “Damn! I’m sending business outside India. How unfortunate!”

Get the bigger picture and be more open system. Just my two cents.


Inversarium Says:
June 14th, 2006 at 8:23 am
And oh yeh. Almost every audio CD I’ve ever purchased has been of a foreign artist and rarely Indian (except for psytrance!). Where does “how unfortunate” come in from here?
This is a follow up to the Elance Pro blog a few entries ago.

I have a second project, similar to the one that the Elance Pro just did for me. He once again impresses me with his ability to close business. Here is how it worked:

1. I sent him specifications for the project.

2. This morning when I hit the computer, he instant messaged me immediately to thank me for the specs.

3. He asked me my budget for the project. I told him that it should be less than the site he just did for me. He agreed and suggested a ballpark. I agreed to that. He asked if I could start today; I told him early next week.

4. Now it gets interesting. He asked me if he wanted me to have him post the project for him. I said sure.

5. So he posted the project on my behalf and awarded it to himself!

This action not only “closed the deal” for him, but did two other things:

1. He saves 4.75% on elance fees by doing this on a repeat project.

2. He is able to automatically invoice me for half the project fees right away.

So with a brief IM conversation, this developer managed to close a second project. I love that kind of speed and efficiency!

This entry was posted on Tuesday, December 13th, 2005 at 8:02 am, contains 215 words, and is filed under Selling Web Design Services. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed. The views and opinions in this blog post are those of its author.
This post has 15 responses so far VodkaFish Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 3:39 pm
I know some people here like it—but I hate “instant IMs”, and they seem very common from people working overseas. The moment I log on I get bombarded with them. I don’t mind IMs, but I don’t prefer to conduct a lot of business over them. I’ve met few who do, but Sitepoint seems to be an exception to that (observed) rule.


davestarr Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Vodka,

You’re of course totally entitle to your preferences but for myself I wish more people would get into conducting business with IM. It’s much more responsive than email, easier to control, and easier to keep records on.

Perhaps you just haven’t found the right platform? I like Yahoo messenger but there are others that work in different ways that suit many other folk’s needs.

Best regards


Anonymous Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Once again—I bet someone in the U.S. could have done it just as cheap and just as well.


Mathew Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 5:59 pm
Once again—I bet someone in the U.S. could have done it just as cheap and just as well

So? Why bother going with someone else you haven’t worked with, to get the same price and quality?


willthiswork Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 6:49 pm
So? Why bother going with someone else you haven’t worked with, to get the same price and quality?

You will soon see it.


pdxi Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 8:50 pm
I think it will be best to leave the “India vs. USA/UK” discussion in the previous blog, or somewhere else. Let’s not draw attention away from the topic of this entry.


mjc Says:
December 13th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
pdxi, agreed.

The lesson here is how to get repeat business from a customer who has already bought from you. The location of either business is immaterial. I’ve heard horror stories about offshored projects and I’ve worked with very good Indian developers. In this case the developer is doing a good technical job but quite clearly an excellent marketing job which is why Andrew is using him as an example.

Elance is a place where it’s hard to compete on anything except price. You’re better off marketing yourself on quality in your local niche. Read Michael Porter, on second thoughts, don’t ;) Summary:-

You can only compete based on one of three criteria being either Best, Cheapest or one of the previous two in a niche.

Looking seriously at most of us we:

a) Don’t have the resources to be best in the world.

b) can’t compete with an offshore outfit on price.

Which leaves us with niche marketing which I’m sure Andrew’s recommended in the past. So everyone, identify your niche & be best in that niche.


friendsterindia Says:
December 15th, 2005 at 9:39 am
how can we make elance to spend more money on advertisements. currently there are few buyers and low value projects


friendsterindia Says:
December 15th, 2005 at 9:39 am
how can we make elance to spend more money on advertisements currently there are few buyers and low value projects


friendsterindia Says:
December 15th, 2005 at 9:40 am
any other online marketplaces to pick up projects …??


marcel Says:
December 15th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
I would not mind buying services from the US or India or UK. But so often I see freelancers or sellers saying “We only accept PayPal”.

In India they accept Paypal, Wire and a myriad of other payment options. I know online businesses that make $120,000 / year and only accept PayPal.
That’s not Ecommerce. The rest of the World exists you know…

For those who don’t know, PayPal does not do business with a lot of countries.

Just a 0.02 cent sidenote.


marcel Says:
December 15th, 2005 at 2:03 pm
there is also rentacoder.com


VodkaFish Says:
December 15th, 2005 at 4:38 pm
davestarr,

IM means responding at someone else’s pace or sitting and waiting for them to respond at yours. I find it great for quickie things, sending out reference links, etc., but not conducting business. I’d rather email someone and not have to worry about focusing on the IM, or I’d rather just pick up a phone (or IM chat, Skype, whatever).

I use Trillian myself, love the thing, always have windows open—but I like to keep most of my business over email or on the phone for time purposes. Time is my greatest expense and if you’ve ever had to clarify things with a slow IM conversation, it just seems too costly.


Anonymous Says:
January 13th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Concerning Elance anyone choosing to join this service should watch their billing like a hawk. They make countless mistakes in overbilling, which they will fix but its happened to me more than once where I was double billed with Elance service fee which is 8.75. Also all the times I’ve called their 800 number I’ve never reach a live person. Their answering machine message just becomes redundant. Although someone eventually calls you back.


Kim Scott Says:
September 26th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
Elance and RentACoder are nice but I don’t like chasing freelancers that barely speak my language.

I use SoftwareProjects

matching fees

Question:


I am developing a business plan for a course in business that I am taking. The business is an online database for various types of contractors such as plumbers and electricians. The idea is that we can use the database to create an edge for the consumer.

We have the consumer give us all the relevant information. We then forward this info to all the people listed in the database who would be interested. Each contractor can then place their bid on the project.

One problem that I am running in to is generating a profit margin. I can see how the service would be useful, but I am having trouble finding a way of making money off of it. What are some common methods similar companies (such as lendingtree.com) use to generate revenue? Where would I be able to find a resource online that would discuss this?


Answer:


Visit www.guru.com and read the terms of service. They offer a service similar to the one you plan. Also check out elance.com.

This text is a copy of the fee information on the guru website. WHEN FEES APPLY. Currently, Guru does not charge Hirers for reviewing Proposals through the Guru Marketplace. However, when you Accept a Proposal, you will pay to Guru the applicable Match Fee (as defined below).

A Proposal is deemed "Accepted" by you when a specific Independent Professional has begun work on a project you posted on the Site or when you and an Independent Professional have expressly or impliedly agreed to work together. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, one way you signify that you have Accepted a Proposal is to click on the "Submit" button on the "Confirm Proposal Acceptance" area of the Guru Marketplace. You agree to promptly report to Guru all Proposals that you Accept ("Matched Proposals") in one of the following ways: (a) by Accepting a particular Proposal on the Guru Marketplace as described above; or (b) by sending an email to service@teamguru.com. Failure to report a Matched Proposal or pay Guru will give Guru certain audit rights listed below and may result in the termination of your account.

MATCH FEES. Subject to the minimum and maximum fees applicable to Matched Proposals, the "Match Fee" for each Matched Proposal is an amount equal to five percent (5%) of the greater of (a) the total amounts actually paid by Hirer to the Independent Professional for performance of the Project; or (b) the Independent Professional's price estimate for the Project indicated in the Matched Proposal. The minimum amount of any Match Fee is $50.
We may change the method of calculating the Match Fee at any time, but a changed Match Fee will apply to a Project Description you submit only if we notify you of the changed Match Fee at or before the time you submit the Project Description to the Guru Marketplace.


PAYMENT. You will pay the applicable Match Fee within thirty (30) days after you Accept a Proposal. You may pay the Match Fee in one of two ways, described below.
Paying by Credit Card. You may pay the Match Fee for a Project by clicking the "Submit" button on the Invoice page. When you click the "Submit" button, you authorize Guru to charge your credit card for the Match Fee applicable to your Accepted Proposal. You will receive a 5% discount on your Match Fee when you pay by credit card.

Paying by Invoice. You may request that Guru invoice you for the Match Fees you owe us. When you click on the "Submit" button, you re-confirm that you owe Match Fees to Guru. You may pay by either printing the invoice for your Match Fees from the invoice pages or pay the amount of the invoice that Guru will send to you at the billing address you have provided. You agree to maintain current and valid billing and email addresses in your Hirer profile. In the event that you do not receive an invoice, you are still responsible for payment. You agree to return payments to Guru within thirty (30) days after the invoice date. You may direct questions regarding invoices to billing@teamguru.com.


Best of Luck,

Milton Zlotnick
Plan4biz.com

e-Commerce Solutions Arm of Elance Acquired by Click Commerce

Chicago, Illinois - (The Hosting News) - February 9, 2006 - Provider of on-demand supply chain management solutions, Click Commerce, Inc., has acquired substantially all of the operating assets of Elance, Inc.'s on-demand e-commerce solutions for services business.

According to the company, the acquisition enhances Click Commerce's supply chain management solutions for the extended enterprise by adding new on-demand collaborative commerce capabilities that enable companies to find, evaluate, purchase, manage, and pay contractors and third-party service providers.

Michael W. Ferro, Jr., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Click Commerce commented on the news, ''As manufacturing companies outsource more and more of their operations, buying and managing third-party services and service providers becomes a real challenge. The addition of services and contractor management capabilities creates significant cross-selling opportunities in the aerospace and defense and contract manufacturing verticals, as well as in our core markets of high-tech, financial services, and institutional research. Click Commerce's Service-Oriented Architecture will facilitate our customers' use of the new solutions to derive cost savings, greater visibility, and increased compliance for the services they are already buying.''

Click Commerce will continue to offer the Elance outsourcing management software as a service to many different industries, including the high-tech, energy, financial services, manufacturing, transportation, and utilities industries. Elance estimated that, in 2005, its customers used its solutions to manage over $7 billion of their Services and Contractor spending on IT, contingent labor, operations, management consulting, marketing, print, and other service projects.

The customers of this Elance business include a number of existing Click Commerce customers, such as FedEx, GE, and Motorola, as well as other well-known companies, like American Express and BP. The acquisition also included two foreign Elance subsidiaries, which expanded Click Commerce internationally by increasing its European presence with additional sales and support staff in the United Kingdom and by adding a small software development facility in India.

According to the two companies, Click Commerce paid approximately $15 million in stock and cash for the services and contractor management business assets of Elance.

In 2006, Click Commerce expects the acquired Elance business to recognize approximately $7,500,000 in recurring revenues from its customers purchasing maintenance, hosting and services. The majority of the employees of this Elance business unit will become Click Commerce employees after the transaction.

After the sale of the Services and Contractor Management business, Elance, Inc. will concentrate on its Internet business and the growth of its online service for small business outsourcing.

comment on elance.com, guru.com is better

http://www.amazon.com/Elance-com/dp/B00006DWI5

not all positive service comments.

http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-1566.html

Since they charge a monthy fee for service providers, they also screwed them.

I've have tried both. I've stuck with Guru.com, because I feel the organization is there for the benefit of freelancers. I also like the tools that Guru.com provides, such as their simple billing tool. To cap it off, Guru.com if free. They charge extra for "value-added services" such as insurance.

Elance.com is much different beast. First off, you pay and pay a pretty hefty amount. (At least I found the amount to be so.) Like another poster noted here, Select membership is the only way to go. The reason being, that Select providers interact with Select buyers, and Select buyers are what I term, the real deal. These are companies that have real projects, that have real budgets, etc. Otherwise what you deal with are kids placing phoney projects, or individuals looking to add rollovers to their homepages, or shady businesses looking for want amounts to an enterprise class web tool of some sort, for under $50.

elance patent

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=768986
I'm interested in starting a website like Elance.com. However, when I
went on their website I saw the following patent "U.S. Patent
7,069,242"

Will I be able to start up a similar website as them??

If I can't how are similiar websites like guru.com, getacoder.com,
php-freelancers.php still in business?? Why hasn't a lawsuit been
brought out on them by elance.com??

That question is not easy to answer. Would the website you'd like to
start any of the specific claims described in the Elance patent? Here
they are:



The invention claimed is:

1. A computer implemented method, comprising: accepting a posting on a
website of a project that a buyer wants completed; providing a
database containing all registered sellers; receiving a bid on the
project from any seller, where all registered sellers are qualified to
bid on postings in all categories; allowing the buyer to accept the
received bid from the seller; and allowing the buyer and the seller to
work on the project in a collaborative workspace accessible by only
the buyer and the seller, where the seller develops and delivers the
project in the collaborative workspace and the buyer can track the
project in the collaborative workspace before it is complete.

2. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the posting
includes a project name.

3. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the posting
includes a project description.

4. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the posting
includes a category.

5. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the posting
includes a price estimate.

6. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the bid is
received in a closed auction.

7. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the bid is
received in an open auction.

8. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the bid is
received in a Dutch auction.

9. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein the
collaborative workspace includes: one or more communication tools; a
file structure; one or more workbenches; and one or more project
management tools.

10. The computer implemented method of claim 9, wherein the file
structure includes at least one private folder.

11. The computer implemented method of claim 9, wherein the file
structure includes at least one shared folder.

12. The computer implemented method of claim 1, wherein both the buyer
and the seller rate each other.

13. A computer implemented method, comprising: providing a database
containing all registered sellers; accepting on a website, the posting
of a service offering by any seller, where all registered sellers are
qualified to post in all categories; receiving requirements for the
service offering from a buyer; generating an optimized list of those
service offerings that match more of the buyer's requirements than the
rest of the service offerings posted, but not necessarily all of the
buyer's requirements; returning the optimized list to the buyer; and
accepting a purchase request for the service offering from the buyer.

14. The computer implemented method of claim 13, wherein at least one
of the buyer's requirements is inflexible.

15. The computer implemented method of claim 13, wherein the optimized
list includes service offerings that meet all of the buyer's
requirements.

16. The computer implemented method of claim 13, wherein the optimized
list includes service offerings that meet a subset of the buyer's
requirements, the subset being smaller than the buyer's requirements.

17. The computer-implemented method of claim 13, wherein the buyer
does not take part in generating the optimized list.

18. The computer-implemented method of claim 13, wherein the seller
does not take part in generating the optimized list.

19. The computer implemented method of claim 13, further comprising
the seller developing and delivering the service in a collaborative
workspace and the buyer being capable of tracking the service in the
collaborative workspace before it is complete.

20. A computer implemented method, comprising: providing a database
containing all registered sellers; accepting on a website, the posting
of a service offering for a project by any seller, where all
registered sellers are qualified to post service offerings in all
categories; receiving requirements for the service offering from a
buyer; accepting a purchase request for the service offering from the
buyer; and allowing the buyer and the seller to work on the project in
a collaboration workspace accessible by only the buyer and the seller,
where the seller develops and delivers the project in the
collaborative workspace and the buyer an track the project in the
collaborative workspace before it is complete.

21. The computer implemented method of claim 20, wherein the
collaborative workspace includes: one or more communication tools; a
file structure; one or more workbenches; and one or more project
management tools.

22. A computer-implemented method for the using of an on-line services
marketplace by a buyer comprising: posting a project on a website;
providing a database containing all registered sellers; receiving via
the website a bid on the project from any seller, where all registered
sellers are qualified to bid on postings in all categories; accepting
the bid via the website; and working on the project with the seller in
a collaborative workspace, where the seller develops and delivers the
project in the collaborative workspace and the buyer can track the
project in the collaborative workspace before it is complete.

23. The computer implemented method of claim 22, wherein the
collaborative workspace includes: one or more communication tools; a
file structure; one or more workbenches; and one or more project
management tools.

24. A computer-implemented method for the using of an on-line services
marketplace by any seller comprising: providing a database containing
all registered sellers; posting a service offering on a website by any
seller, where all registered sellers are qualified to post service
offerings in all categories; receiving a purchase request for the
service offering from a buyer; accepting the purchase request via the
website; and working on the project with the buyer in a collaborative
workspace, where the seller develops and delivers the project in the
collaborative workspace and the buyer can track the project in the
collaborative workspace before it is complete.

25. The computer implemented method of claim 24, wherein the
collaborative workspace includes: one or more communication tools; a
file structure; one or more workbenches; and one or more project
management tools.

26. A computer-implemented method for the using of an on-line services
marketplace by any seller comprising: providing a database containing
all registered sellers; placing a bid by any seller on a project
posted by a buyer on a website, where all registered sellers are
qualified to bid on postings in all categories; receiving via the
website an acceptance of the bid by the buyer; and working on the
project with the buyer in a collaborative workspace, where the seller
develops and delivers the project in the collaborative workspace and
the buyer can track the project in the collaborative workspace before
it is complete.

27. The computer implemented method of claim 26, wherein the
collaborative workspace includes: one or more communication tools; a
file structure; one or more workbenches; and one or more project
management tools.

28. A computer-implemented method for the using of an on-line services
marketplace by a buyer comprising: providing a database containing all
registered sellers; making a purchase request for a service offering
for a project, posted by any seller on a website, where all registered
sellers are qualified to post in all categories; receiving via the
website an acceptance of the purchase request by the seller; and
working on the project with the seller in a collaborative workspace,
where the seller develops and delivers the project in the
collaborative workspace and the buyer can track the project in the
collaborative workspace before it is complete.

29. The computer implemented method of claim 28, wherein the
collaborative workspace includes: one or more communication tools; a
file structure; one or more workbenches; and one or more project
management tools.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of Question by olimits7-ga on 27 Sep 2006 13:31 PDT
Hello,

Yes the website I would like to startup has many of the specific
claims described in the Elance patent.

However, the other competing websites (Guru.com, Getacoder.com,
php-freelancers.com) all do the same thing as Elance.com, so why are
these companies not getting in trouble?

And by looking on the competing websites none of them say they have a
partnership with Elance.com.

Thank you,

olimits7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Request for Question Clarification by keystroke-ga on 27 Sep 2006 14:05 PDT
Hello olimits7,

the companies are not getting into trouble for a few reasons:

1. ELance would have to sue them. They might do this in the future,
but that would be a long process and they might not want to do it yet.
In fact, they might want to wait until those companies get more
successful and they can ask more from them in a lawsuit.

2. The patent was just approved a few months ago. They wouldn't have
had time to start lawsuits yet.

Basically, the US should not be giving patents out on things that are
not original inventions like this. Netflix is also suing Blockbuster
for stealing their patented idea of sending DVDs through the mail. It
really is ridiculous. Unfortunately, it's something that the US Patent
Office is doing incessantly these days and it doesn't seem that it
will stop.

--keystroke-ga


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of Question by olimits7-ga on 27 Sep 2006 20:46 PDT
Hello,

I know I need to talk to a lawyer about this, but based on your
experience do you think that if I started a similiar website that I
could get sued for it?

I remember reading about the Netflix-Blockbuster patents, and how
Blockbuster stated that Netflix is trying to create a monopoly on that
type of business method.

That's why I think that it might be alright to setup a similiar
company like elance.com

Thank you,

olimits7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Request for Question Clarification by keystroke-ga on 28 Sep 2006 09:46 PDT
Hello olimits7,

I happened to find this old Google Answers question dealing with this issue:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=703456

I guess the commenters didn't realize that Elance.com had applied for
a patent in 2000. Anyway, as they say this is called a "business
method patent." Even though it seems ridiculous (did Blockbuster
patent the idea of "renting movies" in the 1970s when they started?
No) the USPO is giving these patents out like crazy for some reason.
Whether that will hold up in court, I don't know. Patents can be
challenged, and re-examined by a third party, and if I were guru.com
that's what I would try to do. The Netflix and Blockbuster lawsuit
will probably go on for years, so we can't really learn anything from
that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent

"State Street Bank v. Signature Financial Group, Inc., (47 USPQ 2d
1596 (CAFC 1998)), the court rejected the theory that a "method of
doing business" is an excluded category of invention and reiterated
that a business process patent may be granted on the same basis as any
other invention. The court further confirmed this principle with AT&T
Corporation v. Excel Communications, Inc., (50 USPQ 2d 1447 (Fed. Cir.
1999)). These two cases confirmed the non-existence of the rumored
business process exception in the US patent common law."

Here is a case in which the owner of a patented business method
prevailed against Ebay:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_v._MercExchange

I would say that if you start one of these sites and make a lot of
money (i.e., millions), Elance would come after you. If you start a
site similar to theirs and make a decent but not huge living off of
it, I doubt they'd spend the money to come after you.

Blockbuster may have a point as far as the monopoly accusation goes,
but they would have to prevail in court in order to set that
precedent.

My prediction is that guru.com will get sued by Elance-- there is no
reason for Elance to spend all that money getting a patent if not to
defend it. In fact, the ONLY reason to get a business method patent is
to sue people who are in the same business as you. If this madness
were going on years ago, McDonald's would have sued Wendy's and Burger
King out of business.

It could be a risk starting a site like this. But again, if you don't
make loads of money, Elance wouldn't come after you.

--keystroke-ga

elance vs rentacoder 2005/3/25

http://traumwind.de/blog/?detail=2005-03-25_22-20
I registered at elance.com. It's free. But just now I wanted to bid for a project I'd love to work on to notice that I need to give them minimum $30 a month to even bid! RentACoder looks nicer in that aspect:
To pay for this service, Rent a Coder charges coders a 15% Rent a Coder Fee on the profit from work and questions. So if you don't find work...we don't get paid.
Also the RentACoder website looks far more informative and helpfull. I found an answer to my question riight away, while on elance.com I needed to actually try to bid to be sure how it would work and what it would cost. Oh, the info is there too. But buried and confusing...
elance.com only takes 8.5% from your earnings... but they have this basic fee... [thx to Rick and Feedster]

elance 5 outsource management sw

http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/477613
Elance Delivers Most Extensive, Globalized Services & Contractor Management Solution with Elance 5, Reinforcing Commitment to Industry Leadership

Next Generation Capabilities Combine to Accelerate Deployments for Individual Services and Geographies and to Underpin Global Rollouts Across Multiple Service Categories, Geographies, and Divisions

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Nov. 15 / -- Elance, Inc. (www.elance.com), the leading provider of e-commerce solutions for services, today announced the general availability of Elance 5, the next generation of its industry leading Services & Contractor Management OnDemand solution used by 200,000 employees at leading companies. Elance 5 enables enterprises to rapidly automate the procurement and management of over 50 service categories, including contingent labor and IT outsourcing, and deliver immediate value through increased compliance and visibility, performance improvement, up to 20% savings on services and labor purchases. With Elance 5, enterprises can "Think Globally, Deploy Locally" -- use Elance to gain immediate value for individual services, departments and division, without compromising their desire for a single platform to serve their global needs.

"To succeed in gaining the cost-savings, efficiency and performance benefits of managing services spending, companies need to take a phased approach to tackling different service categories," said Andrew Bartels, Vice President at Forrester Research. "Leading vendors need to provide a deep and broad platform than can handle the full range of services while enabling department by department implementation to maximize successful deployments."

"Elance is unique in its ability to handle a wide variety of outsourced services," said Farley Blackman, Vice President of Indirect Procurement and Six Sigma for BP. "This breadth of capability enables increased supplier performance, management and quality-all while delivering cost savings."

Highlights of Elance 5

o Deployment Ready Solution -- leveraging Elance's extensive deployment experience, Elance 5 offers enterprises pre-configured processes, business rules, document templates, base data and approval workflows for multiple service categories to enable immediate time to value in as little as four weeks. Only Elance offers a pre-configured catalog of over 50 services and support for all major contract types, including contractor, fixed-deliverable, units & materials and 'bill of services' purchases. o Globalization -- multi-national corporations require a single platform to drive compliant services & contractor management policies worldwide. Elance 5 supports not only multiple currencies and formats, but also multiple languages (including double-byte support), and country or local region regulations and taxes through locale-based configuration settings, enabling organizations to utilize a single platform with the sensitivity to operate according to local requirements. o Compliance - over 75% of services orders require change orders and this is a major reason why enterprises lose visibility and control over services. Elance 5 introduces multiple innovations to regain control including easy-to-view change summaries across all components of a complex service order, supplier-initiated change orders, and effective-dating of rate changes. Other compliance enhancements include mandatory on-boarding tasks for contractors, request-reason tracking for changes, and sub-contractor WMBE tracking enabling compliance to Sarbanes-Oxley, HR and procurement policies. o Performance Management -- Elance 5 introduces 360 degree performance management with the introduction of feedback surveys to capture supplier performance at the order-level as well as surveys to capture supplier-feedback for buyers to improve overall collaboration, providing companies a quantitative and qualitative scorecard detailing the responsiveness, capability assessment and overall satisfaction with key suppliers. o Outsourcing Support -- Elance 5 enhances the support for outsourcing of key services, such as contingent labor, by enabling enterprises to delegate key functions to their service providers. With this capability, Enterprises have the benefits of a managed service while at the same-time maintaining control of a vendor-neutral technology and the ability to expand to multiple service categories beyond contractors.

"Elance 5 is a major step forward for the state-of-the-art in services & contractor management," said Fabio Rosati, president and CEO of Elance, Inc. "Only Elance enables enterprises to seamlessly scale from managing one service category -- say contingent staff -- in one location to managing over fifty service categories, with a standardized services catalog, in multiple languages and currencies, and in full compliance to local laws and regulations around the globe. These capabilities have enabled several of our customers to bring over $500 million annually in services spend covering contingent labor, marketing, print, offshore and consulting services under management in Elance, and Elance 5 will enable even broader, more rapid adoption to deliver global success."

Availability and Online Seminar

Elance 5 is generally available immediately. For a comprehensive list of Elance 5's enhance business value and product capabilities, visit http://enterprise.elance.com/index.html .

Join Forrester Research, FedEx, and Elance to learn about services and contractor management in a online seminar on Thursday, November 17th at 2pm EDT. To register, visit https://elance.webex.com/elance/j.php?ED=87365642&RG=1 .

elance 2005 result 7B

http://www.lexdon.com/article/Elance_Closes_Record_2005_With/29072.html
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Jan. 19 -Elance, Inc. (http://www.elance.com), the leading provider of e-commerce solutions for services, today announced 2005 achievements - customer growth, major product release, international expansion, and SAP certification - solidifying Elance's market leadership in services and contractor management.

Record $7B in Services & Contractor Spend Actively Managed

2005 saw the achievement of over $7 billion in services spend actively managed by Elance customers, demonstrating the rapid adoption of Elance technology by Fortune 500 firms as well as the maturity of the Elance product in managing multiple service categories. Key service categories managed by Elance customers include IT, contingent labor, operations, management consulting, marketing, print, third-party/BPO, and others. This achievement was underpinned by several milestones in 2005 including:

-- Over $3.5 Billion in IT-related services, making IT the largest

category: customers used Elance to buy and manage services from 600 of

the world's largest IT service providers including Accenture,

BearingPoint, Cognizant, Deloitte, Infosys, IBM, Keane, Oracle, Tata

and Wipro.

-- Over $3 Billion in contract labor managed by customers across functions

including accounting, administration, call-center, engineering,

facilities, healthcare, IT, legal, marketing, manufacturing and

operations.

-- Over 35 customer contracts in 2005 with expansions at existing

customers.

Major New Product Release - Elance 5

In November 2005, Elance released the 5th generation of the Elance Services & Contractor Management solution, building on the Elance vision for services standardization, digitization, measurement and compliance. Key components of this major product upgrade included:

-- Rapid deployment -- pre-configured processes, business rules, templates,

base data and approval workflows for each service category to enable

immediate value.

-- Globalization -- including language, workflow, and rules

configurability to enable compliance to country or local regulations.

-- Policy Compliance -- improved functionality to maintain audit trails,

manage services change orders, contractor on-boarding and off-boarding

tasks, and more to enable compliance to Sarbanes-Oxley, HR, safety and

other company policies.

-- Performance Management -- enhanced capabilities for more sophisticated

tracking of supplier performance.

-- Outsourcing Support -- including enhanced Managed Service Provider

(MSP) capabilities to enable more outsourcing.

The product capabilities driving this major upgrade were a result of sustained customer focus, including feedback from two Elance customer advisory councils. These sessions convened leading firms including American Express, BP, EDS, FedEx, GE, Motorola, Novartis, Northwestern Mutual, Procter & Gamble, Qwest and leading consulting and labor providers.

New International Deployments & Expansion

Elance in 2005 also expanded the usage of the Elance Services & Contractor Management solution to 9 countries in 4 continents including Australia, Canada, India, Indonesia, Singapore, the United Kingdom, and, of course, the United States.

To facilitate the international expansion of customers and ensure complete continuity of operations, Elance expanded operations in the UK and EMEA in August 2005 and moved into a new HQ location in central London.

Achievement of SAP Certified Integration

To drive improved ease in integration with existing SAP investments of customers and prospects, the Elance Services & Contractor Management solution in 2005 achieved "SAP Certified Integration" and "Certified for SAP NetWeaver" status, assuring SAP customers of fast, high-quality and proven interfaces with Elance. This expanded, proven integration with SAP NetWeaver complements the interoperability of the Elance 5 Solution with leading enterprise resource planning software from Oracle, Peoplesoft and others.

"2005 was another strong year for our customers and for Elance," said Fabio Rosati, president & CEO of Elance, Inc. "With the achievement of these latest milestones, Elance continues to be the standard-bearer for services and contractor management automation and is the proven partner for companies looking to improve the way they buy and manage third-party services and contractors."

About Elance, Inc.

Elance(R) is the leading provider of e-commerce solutions for services. Elance provides a simple, convenient and automated way to find, evaluate, purchase, manage and pay for third party services and contractors, resulting in tremendous cost savings and increased compliance for buyers and increased customer and market reach for suppliers. Elance brands include:

-- Elance 5, an enterprise service, used by Global 2000 companies to

manage their network of service suppliers and contractors for over 50

service categories including contingent staffing, IT outsourcing, and

consulting services

-- Elance Marketplace, the world's leading web-based project marketplace,

used by mid-sized and small businesses and services providers to

connect and transact projects online

-- Elance Agency, a specialized service, used by mid-sized and small

businesses to access handcrafted project packages for the most popular

services categories.

from ottawa citizen, getacoder.com 2006/9

http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/story.html?id=7b986c6c-68bf-4dd4-b257-0424e0ef8ccd
bids from people in Germany, Uruguay, Pakistan and Ukraine, paying anywhere from $20 to $120 U.S. for the finished work.
That the above essay bid was posted in San Francisco and won by a bidder in Lahore, Pakistan, for just $10 is the perfect example of why these websites are successful. That, in turn, is necessary to understand how students have been using these sites to cheat.

The websites' statistics bear out the realities even further. According to Rent A Coder, 19 per cent of contractors who did work on the site last month came from India, taking on 1,291 jobs. They were followed by Romania at 16 per cent; the United States at 14 per cent; Pakistan at six per cent; and Ukraine and Russia at four per cent. Canada came eighth at three per cent and 223 jobs.

A look at which countries post the most work confirms the outsourcing effect: buyers in the U.S. accounted for 57 per cent (3,865) of last month's projects. Britain came next at 12 per cent, followed by Australia and Canada at six per cent each. India appears on the list in sixth place at only two per cent.

Shawn Simister and Devin Steffler have both taken on programming projects through Rent A Coder. They've also, to varying degrees, done someone else's homework through the site. But they might be considered the exceptions to the outsourcing rule: they don't live in India or Pakistan; they live in Ottawa.

Mr. Simister, 24 and a fifth-year computer-science student at Carleton University, and Mr. Steffler, also 24 and a Carleton software-engineering graduate now doing contract work, both found Rent A Coder through Google searches for programming projects. Rent A Coder's opportunities quickly attracted them: here was a chance to not only hone their programming skills, but also make some cash.

"I'm interested in programming, then I saw that other people were interested but getting paid," said Mr. Simister. "I guess that's the power of the Internet."

Mr. Simister logged on to Rent A Coder in 2002, Mr. Steffler just last April. But they couldn't immediately win the big-money projects they sought, mainly because the site's ranking system — which lets buyers rate a contractor after the work is finished — meant that inexperienced bidders would almost always lose to more seasoned ones.

For many people who end up supplying homework, this seems to be the turning point that spurs them to bid on such postings.

Mr. Simister and Mr. Steffler looked first for small projects, which, if they delivered, would bring them high ratings. Those ratings would boost their chances of winning the projects for which they originally signed on.

They found that small-value work in the steady stream of homework being put up for bids. Mr. Simister started going to the clearly marked "Homework Help" section of the website. He likened it to the tutoring he did at Carleton, only this time he was doing it online.

"People that had a problem with a (computer) program that wouldn't work, I would take a look at it, fix it for them," ha said, adding that he did a "handful" of homework projects.

He earned anywhere from $10 to $40 for each project, most of which typically took an hour or two and came from the U.S. There came a point, he admits, when the ethics of what he was doing began to gnaw at him.

"It was a bit of a question for me," he said. "On the one hand, I love helping people. On the other hand, I don't want to help someone cheat and get a degree they don't deserve."

Mr. Steffler, meanwhile, never really asked himself those questions. Cheating, in one form or another, was happening in his program, he said, whether it was in the friends who followed one another into the bathroom during an exam to compare answers, or the student who acquired a previous year's test.

Mr. Steffler's frustration boiled over, he said, when he wrote a professor complaining about a student using the previous year's test, only to have his professor insinuate the other student was smarter. So when it came to doing someone's homework to build up his website ranking, Mr. Steffler had few qualms.

"I figured someone's going to do it anyways, and I needed some positive feedback, so why not?" he said. "I didn't feel bad about it at all because I've seen (cheating) so many times anyways, whether it went through a website or not."

Mr. Steffler took on two homework projects about three weeks after signing on to Rent A Coder, earning a total of $25. Both students rated him a 10, getting him the ranking boost he needed. But he quickly soured on Rent A Coder. It became impossible, he said, to outbid people who could more easily afford to keep dropping the price.

"The majority of the projects on there ... are really small projects that someone wants anyone to do at the cheapest price, and all those prices would go to someone in India or Romania or whatever," he said.

When the Citizen arranged to have a university essay written through Rent A Coder, 11 of the 18 contractors who expressed interest had been rated four times or fewer by previous buyers, with some admitting they were bidding in hopes of getting a strong ranking to add to their credentials.

Several of the contractors from India and Serbia who bid on the essay said they had heard of Rent A Coder through friends. One had read about it in a Times of India profile of the site headlined "India's invisible billion-dollar economy." Some were students using the money to fund their studies, while others ran teams of people whose income depended on winning bids of all types.

Last year, more than 100,000 projects were completed through the Elance site, bringing in revenue of $18 million. The company expects to surpass that total in this, its seventh year.

Elance has more than 823,000 registered users, about 30,000 of them Canadian. An average of 1,800 projects are posted weekly, with the company netting 8.75 per cent of each winning bid as its commission.

Rent A Coder, meanwhile, has no plans for a similar ban. One of the most popular freelance programming sites on the Internet, Rent A Coder has grown from its launch in 2001 to a destination that now gets about 3.7 million page views each month.

When asked how he would justify making money off academic fraud (Rent A Coder takes a 15-per-cent commission from each winning bid), Mr. Ippolito wrote: "I can't justify allocating scarce resources from other/real problems to ineffectively police it. If those people want to short change themselves that is their decision ... they are only cheating themselves when they can't pass the exam. It's a self-victimizing 'crime.' "

GetACoder, which did not return requests for interviews or comments, earns its keep by charging buyers $3 for each winning bid and taking a 10-per-cent commission.

charges for elance.com

"We charge a transaction fee of 8.75 percent for each project," Rosati said. "And a subscription fee of $10 to $100 per month, depending on the size of the provider."

Last year 2005, about 100,000 projects were listed, and about half of those were completed and paid for successfully.

"But if the project is to build a Web site," said Rosati, "it's hard to compete with a Romanian- or Indian-based programmer."

The average programming project involving a database runs about $1,500. A more complicated job built on Microsoft's .NET platform averages about $5,000.

Agarwal's overhead is low. His 1,000-square-foot office space costs him $800 per month. It's where his 16 employees spend their days, sitting side-by-side like students in a computer classroom.

As for Agarwal, who handles all client communication, project management and even some of the more complicated programming, he makes between $2,000 and $3,000 monthly.

- In Northfield, Goran Paunovic, 29, runs a graphic design firm called Art Version (www.artversion.com). He designs logos mostly. On Elance, he charges about $300 per logo, compared to about $375 if the client comes from the offline world.

Paunovic makes about 100 bids per month on Elance, and wins 5 to 10.

- In Los Angeles, Steve Soto, 26, operates a graphic design company called Studio Soto (www.ssgraphicdesign.com). He has been using Elance since 2001 and has generated $157,000 in revenue through the site. That number accounts for 60 to 70 percent of his revenue.
He charges $150 to $200 for the design of a new logo.

"Let's say you go to a design firm," Soto said. "They'd charge $400 or more."

outsourcing for the little guy

http://www.technologytailor.com/articledetail.php/233

Some info for a small india web dev company.

outsourcing China will be great

http://www.sourcinginterests.org/Regional%20Presentations/2005Midwest/Services%20Supply%20Management.pdf

eLance.com was doing 8B on 2005 and 2006 post a strong grow that up from 1500 projects list per week to 1800 per week.